George H. Webster, Who’s Your Daddy? Part 2

Copyright 2012, CABS for Reflections From the Fence

My last post covered a "time line" of sorts of Henry David and his brother John Wesley Webster, a tour of the 1860 to 1910 census.

Now, let's review Henry and John's obituaries and their family groups.

THE OBITUARIES

I have copies of Henry David’s obituary and John Wesley’s obituary.  There is no publication data on either.  I also have a short death notice/obituary on John, for which I do have the publication data.

Henry David’s obituary states he is survived by, three children, Mrs. J. T. Bowles of DeKalb Illinois; George Webster, Chicago; and E. H. Webster of “this city”.    I believe “this city” is in Lee County Illinois where I find E. H. (Ernest) living in the 1900, 1910, 1920 and 1930 census.  Henry is also survived by 7 grandchildren: Hazel, Persis and John Webster of Chicago; Marjorie Bowles, DeKalb and Clara, Charles and William Webster of “this city”.

John has two obituaries, one (the short version) claims he is the “fond father” of Mrs. Lettie Lashbrook of Minneapolis, Minn., Mrs. Carrie Bullock and Geo. H. Webster. The second obituary (the long chatty version) claims John has two adopted daughters.  One is clearly Mrs. Carrie Bullock, the other daughter’s name is MIA on my copy of this obituary, but states she lived in Minneapolis.  This second obituary states John is also survived by George H. Webster, of Chicago; Ernest Webster, of Dixon, Ill.; Frank Webster of Vesper, Kansas, who are nephews and a niece; Mrs. J. T. Bowles, of DeKalb, Ill.  I have identified all the players, err, nephews, except for Frank.  

(I have come to the realization in all this review and writing, and more review, that I originally misread this obituary.  I did not pick up on the verbiage about George H. being a nephew.  I had been told by family members that George was ‘adopted’ by John and Lorinda, as was Lettie or Letta Clifford Lashbrook. Upon typing and careful slow re-reading of this obituary several times, I now realize that this second obituary does not claim George H. is a son, or an adopted son, but rather a nephew, to which I say, BINGO!!)

THE FAMILY GROUPS

From the diggin’ and searching and comparing and the burning of a few brain cells, these are the children and grandchildren for Henry David, and his wife Josephine.

1.)  Clara, born ca 1855-56, she marries John T. Bowles, and has a daughter Marjorie.

2.)  Ellen, born ca 1857, who dies young and is buried in Floyd County Iowa.

3.)  George, born ca 1861, who I believe marries twice, oh, ya, just to keep things interesting.  First he marries one Caroline Fluent, with whom he has 2 daughters, Lynne and Marion.  I know very little about them, and my source for what I do have is a web page with memories of a granddaughter of George and Caroline.  I believe that some of the memories are somewhat inaccurate, but, the basic story makes sense with all the other research I have done.  Some of the statements I have not been able to substantiate, and I believe that this granddaughter has slightly confused some of the actors in our little family play.  What I do know is that Caroline died in 1888 and is buried in Floyd County Iowa.

In 1893 I find a marriage record for a George H. Webster and Mrs. Ida M. Pabst, who I believe to be Ida M. Bemis (you surely remember that surname, it is Lorinda’s maiden name).  Census records, as well as marriage and death records and indexes provide us with 3 children for George and Ida, Hazel, Persis and John W. Webster.

There is a George H. Webster buried in Floyd County Iowa who died in 1938, I have several hints that lead me to believe this could be our George.  I have not been able to discover where he died.

4.)  Ernest H., mentioned in Henry’s obituary as son, according to the 1900 census has a wife, Anna and 3 children, Clara, Charles and William.

Children or adopted children of John Wesley and Lorinda Bemis Webster:

1.)  Letti Clifford, aka, Letta Clifford Lashbrook.  Referred to as adopted daughter, and our family tradition is that she was indeed adopted by John and Lorinda.

2.)  George H. Webster, who I believe to be one and the same as above, the natural born son of Henry D and wife Josephine.  Our family tradition had said George was also adopted by John and Lorinda and we do find him on the 1870 and 1880 census reports living in their household.

3.)  Carrie, who will marry William Bullock and have 3 children: Ellen, Letta Lillian and Carrie.  No family tradition or stories about Carrie have come down to us.

SOME THOUGHTS

I have not included all the tidbits I have picked up the last few days in my research.  There are holes in this research.  Some information I would love to have that would help fill in the holes has not been found online, yet.  It may or may not ever be there.  I have some ideas for future research trips.  I need some obituaries for others in this clan, maybe they will help, maybe they will not, I would still like to have them.  I have found at least 2 family trees online at Ancestry that have some intriguing goodies, photos and the such.  I have not contacted the owners of said trees.  Those trees have a number of holes, where I have information.  I am thinking about that.

GEORGE'S TIMELINE

The challenge here was to see if I could discover TWO George H. Websters, born between 1859 and 1862 one living with Henry David Webster AND one living with John Wesley Webster on the same census.  So, were there two Georges for the 1870 and the 1880 census enumerations?  Short answer, not that I found.

Born about 1861, George is not found on the 1860 census with Henry and Josephine.  That said, the 1900 census claims he was born in October of 1859.  Yikes!

1870 George is enumerated with John Wesley and Lorinda Bemis Webster, as is Man's ancestor, Letta Clifford.

1880 George is enumerated with John Wesley and Lorinda Bemis Webster

1885 George is enumerated with his first wife, Carrie.

1900 George is enumerated in Chicago with wife Ida and three daughters, Minnie Webster (who I believe is Ida's daughter, age 13;  Hazel Webster, age 5; Persis Webster, age 2.

1910 George is enumerated in Chicago with wife Ida, Hazel (horribly misspelled on the index at Ancestry, but correctly at FamilySearch), Persis and son John W.  In 1910 George and Ida have 3 children, Hazel, Persis and John W. Webster.

1920, I cannot find George in this census, anywhere, but, Ida is still in Chicago and her son John W. is living with her.

1930, I have not found George on the 1930 census either, but, Ida is still in Chicago, this time her married daughter Hazel is living with her (as well as Hazel’s hubby and 2 of their children).

I have some suspicions about where George was during the 1920 and 1930 census.  My theory/suspicions come from that web page, that I mentioned earlier, the memories of a granddaughter.  She mentions that he traveled extensively in North and South America.  That could easily explain why I did not find him enumerated with his wife, Ida.  I can see tracing down that story could be quite interesting.

SUMMARY

My tangent research has ended for the time being.  I will do some additional input and note making.  I may contact some of those other researchers.  At this point I feel reasonably comfortable with the lineage as I have outlined it.  Writing down all the findings, sorting through, has helped me organize all those census reports, marriage and death records.  I remembered what it is like to have 10 to 15 net tabs open at the same time, checking this data base and that.  It was a nice break from book projects.  I have some items to add to my to do list.

It has been fun, not sure you all are one bit interested, but, I have had an exhausting, exhilarating, and fun week.

I believe the wild idea/thought I had the other night about George H. being the son of Henry David Webster and the "adopted" son of John Wesley Webster is correct.

This photo has been seen before here at Reflections, on July 23, 2009 on a post titled, A photo brick wall, Clifford-Webster style.  At that time I suspected they were the Websters and Letty Clifford.  I believe that even more so now.  Therefore, I suggest the following identifications:   Seated:  Lorinda Bemis Webster and John Wesley Webster.  Standing, Letta Clifford and George H. Webster.

And, here, is the photo that was published in the long obituary of John Wesley Webster in 1913, publication data unknown.

So, George H. Webster, who is your daddy??  In my opinion at this point in the research process, both Henry David Webster and John Wesley Webster of course.  Brothers raising one son, family ties, ties that bind.

* And that is the lineage as I find it with the current research, the current status quo.  In the future, with additional research and information I may prove myself wrong.  Would not be the first time, nor will it be the last.
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George H. Webster, Who’s Your Daddy? Part 1

Copyright 2012, CABS for Reflections From the Fence

(As I wrote this long review on George, I realized that I had mis-read part of the obituary of John Wesley Webster. Bad - - and good. Bad, obvious, mis-reading or misunderstanding is just not a good thing. Good, well, it made me stay up late and do a lot of research and I found some new stuff and, ya, I had some frustrating fun too! And, so, with that confession of my “ooops”, onward - -)

Here is where this saga stands at the moment, and even though I have been obsessed with the search for several nights (and days) now, I find for many reasons, I need to just record what I think I know and move on for the time being. I have reviewed and snooped and I am exhausted from the efforts, and no, I will not profess this is an exhaustive search.  George, despite this last few days, is NOT a strong contender of the focus of my research, and I must let it rest, at least for now. A revisit in a year or so is not out of the possibilities, by then, more records will become available online, or I hope I will be in a research library where I can access records not available online and I can do some digging there.

So, here is how I think it plays out. Up front, some of this knowledge comes from online family trees at Ancestry.com, some from research done by others and published in books, and I only have portions of those books. I have tried to verify some of this information in the past and currently via the net. This is a working draft. I may prove or disprove some parts or all of this later. I feel I am close on this, that said, there are too many holes and missing proofs to be totally comfortable with it.

Henry David Webster and John Wesley Webster are brothers, sons of David Webster and his wife Betsey Blake. Both Henry and John find themselves living in Floyd County Iowa in the 1860 to 1880 time frame.

THE TIME LINES

Henry and his wife Josephine are enumerated on the 1860 census of Floyd County, Iowa with 2 daughters, Clara and Ellen.

In 1860 John is living with his parents, David and Betsey, in Beloit, Rock County, Wisconsin.

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In 1870, Henry is living in Floyd County Iowa, but, Josephine, Clara and Ellen are not found on the census. As a matter of fact, Ellen (Ella) is found buried in Floyd County, having died in 1864.

In 1870 John W. and his wife Lorinda Bemis Webster are living in Floyd County. Also in the house hold are: John’s father, David; Georgie or Georgette or George H. Webster; Litta Clifford and 3 individuals with the surname Bemis, actually some horrible form of Bemis.  (Below is image of part of the 1870 enumeration.)

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Henry has not been found enumerated on the 1880 census, but, we do find H. D. Webster, with wife Josephine and son Ernest enumerated on the 1885 Nebraska state census living in Brown County. The ages and birth places match well with what I know about the family. Son George is found on the 1885 census of Iowa, as a young married man. This is the last sighting of Josephine I have found.

John W. is enumerated on the 1880 census of Plano, Kendall, Illinois. In the household are his wife, Lorinda; and George Webster, SON, 19; Carrie Webster, DAUGHTER, 8; David Webster (John’s father), 81; 7 others, whose names mean nothing to me at this time, shown as boarders; and one Earnest Webster, aged 17, listed as a boarder, but whom I believe is the son of Henry David, therefore a nephew of John W.

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Henry has not been found on the 1900 census.

John is found on the 1900 census of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois. Others in the household are his wife Lorinda and a fellow who is claimed as a cousin (probably the Henry Bemis in the 1910 census, see below).

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John is found on the 1910 census of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, in the household is his wife Lorinda and Henry Bemis, a cousin.

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Henry David dies in 1909 in Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, John Wesley dies there in 1913.  I have death records for both.

I have traced a number of the “grandchildren”, adopted or otherwise, well past the death dates of 1909 and 1913.  I found them in census and found some marriage and some death records for the grandchildren.  These findings assisted in furthering the searches on the grandparents and on our George H., allowing me to get this far. The searches are not complete by any means.

Part 2 will discuss the obituaries of Henry David and John Wesley Webster and give rough outlines of their family groups.



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Monday Moaning, The Exhaustive, Err, Exhausting Search, OR, There Is a Storm Brewing

Copyright 2012, CABS for Reflections From the Fence

Warning, Do Not Attempt to read this post without a freshly brewed pot of coffee, or your choice of caffeine, lots of caffeine.       

GROAN!!

Recently, I decided to input one of Man's ancestor's adoptive parents.  The father of this adoptive family has an interesting connection to Noah, no make that Daniel, Webster.  More on that sometime in the future.

While I was doing the input, I decided I would like to learn more about the adoptive siblings.  It seems that these adoptive parents adopted more than one child, and there is what appears to be one natural born child too.  'Appears to be' is the thing that got me exhausted last night (well, kept me up well past when I should have gone off to zzz land anyway).

Let's see if I can unwind some of this now that I am supposedly more rested. Somehow, I doubt I will, but, here goes anyway - -

We have John and Lorinda, parents that adopt Man's ancestor.  I have two obituaries for John, one is more like a death notice, short and to the point, and names Man's ancestor and two others.  John is referred to as "fond father". No mention of adoptions here.

I have a partial copy of a second obituary, a very long, chatty piece, from a newspaper believed to be the Lake View Times and News from the Chicago Illinois area.  I have this copy due to the kindness of one of Man's distant cousins.  She shared with me years ago, and has since passed.   She shared much and I cannot be more thankful.

There is just one small little issue with the copy, (one issue other than I have no publication information, sigh) there are lines missing on my photocopy.  Some look like someone cut the article on the wrong line, other parts look like they are seriously worn.  Of course, one of the seriously worn sections is the section that covers the survivors.  I can read the home town of one of the "adopted children", and it is that of Man's ancestor, but I cannot read the name.  I can read most of the name of the second adopted child.  Then there is a bunch more stuff that is lost.  We pick up with, "of the surviving relatives are:  George H. Webster.

And, it is George that is providing me with a very interesting search and causing me to stay up late at night, which of course, causes me to loose sleep.

I am having all kinds of trouble searching George.  I have George on the 1870 census in Iowa with John and Lorinda, and Man's ancestor.  George is found on the 1880 census with John and Lorinda, Man's ancestor has married by then and is living elsewhere.  I have 'A' George on the 1900 and 1910 census, in Chicago with his wife and children. (I say 'A' George, because, well, keep reading - - ) I cannot find him in the 1920 census, I do find his wife in that year.  I cannot find a death date, via indexes or whatever other means available.  Have not found an obituary in the sources I have available from my desk and the internet.  Have not found, well, maybe found, a burial place.

Ah, yes, it is confusing and muddled.  Made all the more so last night when I realized that John, you know, the father in this family group, has a brother, Henry David Webster.  John and Henry lived in Floyd County Iowa at the same time.  I have some old family histories that indicate that Henry David married a Josephine.  I found Henry, Josephine and two daughters on the 1860 census in Floyd County Iowa.  1870 Josephine is not to be found, I suspect she has died, as did one of the daughters.

I find family trees online that show that there is a George H. Webster connected to this Henry David Webster.  So, I charge off looking for something that would substantiate this connection.  This family tree also shows a George buried in, yes, Floyd County Iowa.

The phrase, ahhhhh, the tangled webs we weave, is resounding in my brain, screaming in my brain.  Another thought is that this is a huge storm brewing in my brain matter!

I look at a lot of data bases, I charge here and there on the net, I do a lot of screen captures, I charge around some more.  I continue to come up with lots of dead ends (pun intended) when it comes to George H.  I can barely find ONE George H. and surely not two, the reported birth years of the George, son of John, and George, son of Henry, are extremely close, the birthplaces the same.  ARGHHH!!

If you are confused, you should be, it is allowed.  This is what happens when you are using old published family histories and family trees online to give hints on where to look.  This might be a lesson in how NOT to research your family!  LOL

And, then, in my state of exhaustion, my befuddled state of mind, a creative (??) light turns on and I wonder, did Henry David's wife die, and did John, his brother, adopt any children Henry had??  OH MY.  They were living in the same county, Floyd County Iowa, at the same time.  Could this be why it appears there are two Georges but, there really is only one??

I know, what a crazy thought, just one George??

See I also have the obituary for Henry David, aka H. D. Webster, who, it seems, died in Chicago, as did John Webster.  Just so happens that the year Henry died there are images of the certs online, I go, I find, I study, and discover that Henry was living with John at the time. Hmmm, that's interesting.  Henry's obituary states that he has a son, "George Webster, Chicago, who is now in Cuba..."  (No, I have not investigated that yet, but, it does sound pretty intriguing, eh??)

So, both Henry and John are living in Chicago.  Both die there.  Both men's obituaries claim they have a son George from Chicago.  I can only find evidence SO FAR, of one George.

Oh, you can believe this, I will be looking at this again, in detail.  Exhausting and what may be exhaustive research will be the only thing that clears this up, one George, or two.  And, all from the desire to input Man's ancestor's adoptive parents on my data base.  A simple thought, turned exhaustive - -

There's a storm brewing:

* Oh, and just to toss in a bit more fun, George's wife's maiden name might be Bemis.  John's wife's maiden name, is, but of course, Bemis.  More chasing is indicated.  Oh, and while writing this post, I found on the index of Illinois marriages before 1901. a George H. Webster, marrying in Cook County Illinois in 1893 to one Ida M. Pabst. Oh, yea, now that is what I need, ONE more name to chase - -

** So, of course, I chased it right over to FamilySearch, where I indeed found an image of that marriage license, and lookie here, MRS!

Moaning on a Monday Morn - - - More coffee please, better make that a LOT of coffee.

***Graphic of my mind set, errr, the storm, courtesy of Dan Hortons site.   As of October 2018 the link to the Horton site was not functional.
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A photo brick wall, Clifford-Webster style

This photo came to me via some Lashbrook relatives. It was suggested that the young lady in the back is Letta Amelia Clifford, future bride of Wallace Henry Lashbrook. The young man to her left is unknown. The couple in the front might be John Wesley Webster and his wife, Lorinda H. Bemis.

Family tradition is that Letta was “adopted” by John and Lorinda. Letta (or Lettie) was living with the Websters by 1870 in Floyd Township, Floyd County, Iowa. Also living in the house hold was "Georguit" age 7 (who could be the young man in the photo).

Lettie's maiden name is given as Webster on the death certificate of her daughter, Elizabeth Mae Stringer. On the death certificate of her daughter Etta A. Jensen, Lettie's name is given as Lettie Clifford. Lettie's name is given as Lettie A. Webster on the birth certificate of her daughter, Linnie Ruth, and as Lettie Clifford Webster on the death certificate of her daughter, Linnie Ruth.
These references to the name Webster surely seem to support the family tradition.

The photo is one of several I have in my collection that I have not been able to verify the names of the parties. I have only one other photo of Letta, when she is much older. I have compared the photos of course, and feel it is the same woman, noting, I am no expert in such comparisons.

A photo brick wall of sorts. Don’t you love a good mystery?? Needless to say, if you can help, please write!

*Photo courtesy of Ruth Stringer Beck, deceased.
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